CNN.com - Transcripts (2024)

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ABBY PHILLIP, CNN HOST: Donald Trump is doing dress rehearsals and Joe Biden takes a field trip ahead of the most important moment of this election so far. That's tonight on "NewsNight."

Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in Washington. For decades, Camp David has been a sacred place where American presidents have hosted VIPs and villains from Churchill to Putin. But deep in the woods of Maryland, it is also the place where presidents have prepared for political survival.

Back in 1980, ahead of his debate with Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter battled a fake Gipper at that very location. And speaking of Reagan, he did the same in 1984 after his first debate, where he came across as tired and rambling. He started to get questions about his age. So, when Reagan hunkered down to prepare for the other debates, the prep helped give birth to one of the most memorable lines in American political history.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALD REAGAN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I will not make age an issue of this campaign. I am not going to exploit for political purposes my opponent's youth and inexperience.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: In 1992, Bush 41 also prepped at Camp David, ditto for Barack Obama in 2012, where he spent days ahead of his final showdown with Mitt Romney after the first one famously didn't go so well.

And for the next few days, that is exactly where Joe Biden will be doing his homework. The president's face-off with Donald Trump is just a little more than a week away from tonight, right here on CNN.

And for his challenger and predecessor, tonight, we are also learning that Trump is hunkering down in debate prep as well, except he's not doing mock debates. He's opting instead for policy sessions with some of his VP contenders and supporters. And part of those sessions includes trying to find a Goldilocks answer to January 6th.

Tonight, Maggie Haberman told CNN's Anderson Cooper this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Trump is taking this more seriously than people allow publicly, right? I mean, in public, his aides often downplay the prep that he does.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Right.

HABERMAN: He has been doing not standard debate prep. He doesn't have stand-ins as of now for Biden. They are focusing on various issues that could come up: abortion, health care, energy, COVID, and then very specifically, and this was one thing that came up last Thursday, what Trump will say when asked January 6-related questions?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP: Trump's mission to manufacture a January 6th answer comes as a new poll gives Biden some wins in the sale. A Fox News poll shows a three-point shift in the matchup since May in Biden's favor. A big reason? The positive views of the economy. They are hitting the highest level of his presidency so far.

But still, for some nervous Democrats, the race should not be this close at all. Axios is reporting that there are some doubts among Biden allies about whether running a campaign on the insurrection, on Trump's convictions, and on his character is a winning strategy.

Joining me now, the former Democratic governor of Virginia, Terry McAuliffe. He's also the former chair of the Democratic National Committee, and he hosted last night's fundraiser with President Biden and with the Clintons. Governor, thank you for joining us.

TERRY MCAULIFFE, FORMER VIRGINIA GOVERNOR: Thanks, Abby. Great to be with you.

PHILLIP: So, there are reports that some Biden allies on the outside are questioning if the Biden campaign has a winning strategy. Do you think that the Biden campaign has a strategy that can change the trajectory of this race, which seems to be that Trump right now is favored to win?

MCAULIFFE: Well, listen, I just spent three hours with President Biden last night. I was at his side at my house with -- we had nearly 600 people in my backyard. And in basically about eight days, we had the largest non-auditorium event in the history of the Biden campaign. We raised about $8.125 million. And the place was jammed. We had to turn people away.

First of all, a lot of momentum, a lot of excitement, people are unified. I think people understand Joe Biden's message, as they heard last night. But listen, I got up and was able to introduce everybody. And I talked about the differences in what this campaign is all about.

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I talked about Trump. You know, I dealt with him. I was governor during Charlottesville when he said there were good people on both sides, wouldn't condemn neo-Nazis or white supremacists. We had President Trump, who literally tells Vladimir Putin that you can go invade NATO countries. He tells those military that have lost their lives, they were losers. And I have a son who was a captain at Marine Corps. I'm a son of a proud army captain. That cuts me to the bone.

And then I talked about juxtaposition. Look who is standing behind me. We've got two presidents combined and really, about eleven and a half years, these presidents created over 40 million new jobs, longest economic expansion in the history of our country, put NATO back together.

The president is fighting for Ukraine, where I recently visited. Those troops love America. They love Joe Biden because he put the United States out there to protect his fledgling democracy. Bill Clinton brought peace to Northern Ireland. Twenty-five years, we've had it.

So, I think if we continue to draw the comparisons, here's what you had with Donald Trump: Four years, foreign policy, tried to run down NATO, ran down African countries, banned Muslims, bear hugged North Korean dictator. And what did we get for any of this? Nothing. Putin yesterday was in North Korea getting more military armaments to fight to defeat Ukraine, which is a fledgling new democracy.

PHILLIP: We've seen also --

MCAULIFFE: How they work out for you, Donald Trump?

PHILLIP: Governor, we've also seen the Biden campaign. They put out a lot of money on a new ad that really highlights the Trump convictions.

MCAULIFFE: Sure.

PHILLIP: I heard you talk about the economy there. But -- but is the sense that you're getting, that the strongest argument for President Biden right now is to remind voters of Trump, his convictions, his character? Is that the message or is it going to be fighting on economic terrain?

MCAULIFFE: Yeah, I think it's a little mixture of all of it. And you're right, he is a convicted felon. And I remind you that 12 jurors, 34 times, each one of them said guilty. So, 408 times a juror said, Donald Trump, you are guilty. That is an important message as we go. We still got these other trials about mishandling classified documents, putting our military in jeopardy.

But I think the big overall message for us and everybody who's watching the show at home is the economy and creating jobs, good paying jobs. Inflation has continued to come down. But, you know, we still have a lot of work to do. And I give the president credit for building the strongest economy of any nation in the world today. We've come out of COVID. I think it's that.

And then I think, honestly, Abby, a big piece of this is the issue of democracy. We saw what happened on January 6th. They tried to destroy our democracy, the United States of America. And he wants to pardon all these people. And then you look at Joe Biden in Normandy the other day, standing up for America, making us proud of who we are as Americans and what we represent on the world stage. So, I'd say it's democracy. I think it's about the economy. But we are running against a convicted felon.

And let me finally say that the issue of choice, Donald Trump's Supreme Court is the reason women have seen their rights to make their own decisions about their body being taken away. The issue of choice, it has been strong here in Virginia. It's been strong over the country. Women and young people have come out in record numbers. Trump brags about packing the Supreme Court to stop Roe v. Wade, and that's going to come back and people are going to be motivated. So, I think all of those issues together. I'm excited.

PHILLIP: Yeah.

MCAULIFFE: I'm always the ultimate optimist. Joe Biden is a good man. He's going to win this election.

PHILLIP: Earlier this week, though, one of the things that we saw, one of the other dynamics in this race is videos of President Biden that the White House calls cheap fakes. And we should be clear, we fact- checked this on the show. Some of those videos were deceptively edited. But, Governor, there are a lot of other videos, moments when President Biden looks like he has lost a step, to put it the way that some of his allies have.

So, do you think that it is too late, frankly, to take all of that out of the minds of voters who might genuinely be worried that President Biden would be 86 at the end of his second term?

MCAULIFFE: And Donald Trump would be, what, 83? All I can tell you is personal experience. As I say, I spent three hours, not five inches from the president last night, as I moved him around. And vigorously, we went around and did the rope lines and did dinners. And, you know, he finally left here after 9:00 at night.

I had a lot of discussions with the president on a lot of issues. I met him when he and Jill and President Clinton and Hillary first came in. I spent a lot of time talking to the four of them. This president understands what has to be done. I will also say this, where I'm very proud of Joe Biden, he's got a great team together, he's got a great cabinet, he's got a great staff.

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So, the team of the Biden operation has got us first infrastructure bill since Dwight Eisenhower, a chip bill, as I say, economic expansion. So, it's working. It's working in America today.

PHILLIP: But are those kinds of videos that are out there, whether they're real or not, are they hurting President Biden?

MCAULIFFE: Listen, I think people might say, well, what's this video? What's real? What's not? I can just tell you, we can put out many videos of mad rants that, you know, Donald Trump does. He didn't even know his wife's name the other day. I mean, goodness gracious.

And I try to get away from all that, Abby. Honestly, I don't spend any of my time on that. I like to talk about core issues that affect working families every single day. And that's what Joe Biden has done. Student loans. Look at how he has helped so many young people today erase their student loans so they're not burdened and, you know, they can go back about their lives and do things. So, we're going to talk about the issues, the economy, democracy. We're going to talk about choice.

But there's a real distinction of who's going to take this country forward. And people have to understand that. And if Donald Trump is in office, he would get a couple more, probably a couple more Supreme Court justices. I mean, I can't think of where this country would be. Telling our biggest enemy today, oh, go ahead and invade NATO countries, that's sick. I mean, who does that?

PHILLIP: They're going to be on the debate stage together. And look, I guarantee you, a lot of the things you're raising there are going to come up. Last night on this show, we had to fact-check one of Donald Trump's speeches, 30 lies. Actually, we couldn't fit all of them in the show. There were so many of them.

And next week, when they're on that debate stage, what's your advice to President Biden? I mean, should he be fact-checking Donald Trump in real time? I mean, should he try to address this stuff before it kind of gets out there into the universe?

MCAULIFFE: No, if he did that, Abby, that's all he'd be doing. I mean, there's nothing this man -- I mean, everything he says -- I mean, you saw the fact-checks from the first four years as president, thousands of -- he just says things that are incorrect. President Biden next week on that debate stage has just got to lay out his vision for the country, talk about the things he has accomplished, but more importantly, where he's going to take this country next.

I'm so happy that the mics will be shut off when you're not speaking and you won't have audience members and MAGA members in the audience screaming and yelling. I hope -- I hope we could get a substantive debate. I don't think we're going to get that out of Donald Trump. But I clearly know that Joe Biden is going to spend his time taking this country forward.

PHILLIP: Terry McAuliffe, we appreciate you joining us. Thank you very much.

MCAULIFFE: Oh, Abby, thank you very much. Great to be with you.

PHILLIP: In addition to cat, hat, and mom, kindergartners in one state will soon need to add thou and shout to their vocabulary lists, and it's sparking a national backlash and the debate over separation of church and state.

Louisiana tonight forcing public schools to post the 10 commandments in every single classroom. The legislation signed by the Republican governor requires a poster to be visible on the wall. It is the first and only state with that mandate. Now, critics, including the ACLU, say that they're going to sue over this. And it's worth noting, back in 1980, the Supreme Court ruled against a similar law in Kentucky, calling it flat-out unconstitutional.

My next guest is a high school history teacher in Louisiana who is strongly opposed to this new law. Jacob Newsom joins me now. Jacob, thanks for joining us.

JACOB NEWSOM, LOUISIANA HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER AGAINST TEN COMMANDMENTS LAW: Thank you for having me.

PHILLIP: So, even though the governor signed this mandate, it's supposed to start in 2025, you say you're not going to comply with it.

NEWSOM: No, Abby, I'm not. And if compelled to comply, it will be malicious, uh, compliance. I just think it is a foolish thing for us to be doing, regardless of your background, your religiosity or lack thereof.

We have issues in public school system in Louisiana, and I just don't really see how posting the 10 commandments is going to do anything to solve any of them when we have real issues of staffing, understaffing, lack of resources, students below poverty level, homelessness in students and so on and so forth.

So, I'll focus on my students and what they need to succeed in this world, and I'll leave the cultural wars to somebody else.

PHILLIP: Hmm. Do you think that this is about, you know, scaring teachers with the threat of punishment more than anything else?

NEWSOM: I think when you look at this previous legislative session, the bills that didn't get through and then our current legislative session that just ended and the bills that did get through, there's a clear pattern of intimidation by public officials that are quite frankly taking money and support from "astroturf" groups to push a certain view of what America is and what it should be with things like don't say gay legislation or not discussing gender or sexuality in the classroom, outside of the curriculum, where these laws, including the 10 commandments bill, are purposely vague to create this environment where teachers feel as though there are only very specific things they can talk about and they might open themselves up to dismissal or lawsuit if they venture outside of these lines that are not clearly defined at all.

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So, yeah, I do think that it's really just intimidation tactic. I think it's bullying, quite frankly, yes.

PHILLIP: Whatever happened to freedom of speech? I mean, I wonder, you know, I mean, the 10 commandments, some people are Christian and that is a part of their faith. There are plenty of people who are not. Is this an effort to intimidate people of no faith, to push a particular faith on students who are perhaps still developing their sense of self?

NEWSOM: Um, you know, I was raised in a Baptist church. I was raised to follow the 10 commandments. And I think regardless of how you feel about the 10 commandments, nobody would dismiss the fact that they are a pretty good set of rules.

However, it is a clear violation of separation of church and state to enforce this regardless of how you write the bill to say that it's a historical document or not a historical document, which when I was in the committee was the argument being made.

And, you know, also, it's pretty telling when the bill author on committee stand says that they don't care about the feelings of a Muslim student or a Hindu student in terms of how they feel about having the 10 commandments posted, even though that's not their faith.

PHILLIP: Wow. What a thing to say in this country where, you know, freedom of religion is in the Constitution. That is -- that's part of the rules that govern the laws that govern this land. Go ahead, Jacob.

NEWSOM: You know, Abby, I wish I was being hyperbolic about that, but I was in the room where it happened. You can even go online and watch the footage from the day of. It's just what the bill author said. I think that more than the actual posting of the 10 commandments shows the real intent of this legislation.

And also, it's just foolish legislation. I mean, what's going to happen? A third grader is going to walk in a classroom and see thou shall not commit adultery on the wall and say, well, you know, I was really planning on committing adultery today, but since I read that on the wall now, I'm not going to do it.

(LAUGHTER)

It's just nonsense. We have real issues.

PHILLIP: I hear you. Jacob Newsom, thank you very much for joining me and best of luck to you in your classroom. Thank you.

NEWSOM: Thank you, Abby.

PHILLIP: And in a state that could ultimately tilt the election, we've got two Wisconsin power players who are going to join me live to debate the hottest topic on the campaign trail this week. Plus, a nuclear alliance, Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong-un signing a defense deal. So, what does this all mean for the United States? What does it mean if Donald Trump wins another term? This is "NewsNight."

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[23:22:39] PHILLIP: President Biden and Donald Trump are putting an obvious focus on the state of Wisconsin. It is a state that could potentially tilt the election that both have campaigned there recently, including last night when Trump declared his love for Milwaukee after calling it a horrible city just a few days ago.

One of my next guests actually opened for him at that rally. But one of the hottest topics between the two candidates involves this state. It's a busted project that now Trump and Biden have a hand in.

Back in 2017, Trump promised that the Taiwan-based electronics giant Foxconn would be opening a plant right outside of Milwaukee. The company was supposed to invest $10 billion in that plant, which would have created 13,000 jobs. In 2019, though, the deal was scaled back significantly, down to a $672 million and a promise of 1,500 jobs.

But now, President Biden has announced that Microsoft will be pouring $3.3 billion to build an AI data hub on the same land as the failed Foxconn venture. That project is expected to create 2,000 permanent jobs and 2,300 construction jobs.

As Trump was rallying in Wisconsin yesterday, the Biden campaign emailed its supporters about that failed deal. They wrote, "This isn't the only time Donald Trump screwed over workers when he was president. His economic agenda shuttered factories and incentivized companies to ship American jobs overseas all while handing out tax breaks to the ultra-wealthy and big companies."

Joining me now is former Wisconsin governor and Trump ally, Scott Walker. Also, with us, chair of the Democratic Party of Wisconsin, Ben Wikler. Scott, I want to start with you. Is that failed Foxconn deal a vulnerability for Trump?

SCOTT WALKER, FORMER WISCONSIN GOVERNOR: Not at all. Microsoft is making that announcement because Foxconn provided them with a state- of-the-art facility.

The reason people like Ben and Democrats and other allies for Joe Biden are drawing attention to that is they don't want people to know what I talked on this network about with Dana Bash earlier this year, when we saw more than 100% increase in layoffs during the first couple of months here in the state of Wisconsin, when you see 20% increases in prices for people here in Wisconsin, just a buck a gallon is a good example, more that people are paying here in Wisconsin versus what they paid when Donald Trump was in office, and probably worst of all, a 43% increase in the cost of housing.

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Terrible for new homebuyers. People like my son and daughter-in-law are trying to buy a home. They're going to pay about a thousand dollars a month more in their mortgage payments than they would have when Donald Trump was in office. So, of course, they want to talk about things like this because they don't want to talk about high prices and the absolute failure Joe Biden has been for the last four years for people here in Wisconsin, whether it's in Milwaukee, where I was earlier today, Racine, where I was yesterday, or right here in Waukesha County, where I live tonight.

PHILLIP: I see you, Ben, shaking your head.

BEN WIKLER, CHAIR, DEMOCRATIC PARTY OF WISCONSIN: I'm so glad to be here tonight. Abby --

WALKER: These are the facts and the facts don't care about --

PHILLIP: Let me -- let me -- let me let Ben jump in there.

WIKLER: President Biden has said throughout his life that his father told him a job is more than a paycheck. It's about dignity. It's about being able to look your kid in the eye and tell them that you know it's going to be okay. And although President Trump and you, governor, broke ground with golden shovels on a factory that went up in smoke, we actually are right now constructing this AI data center in Racine County that will bring thousands of family-supporting jobs.

And that's the difference between promises like the infrastructure bill that never materialized under Trump and delivering for Wisconsinites what you see under President Biden, thousands upon thousands of manufacturing jobs in the state of Wisconsin. This is a jobs boom and a president who is focused on fighting special interests to bring costs down, starting with big drug companies. We've already brought the cost of insulin for people on Medicare down to $35 a month. He wants to do the same thing for everyone who needs insulin and go to other drugs.

Besides, this is a president who actually knows what it takes to get things done. And what we've seen from Trump over and over is big talk, big promises. And in the end, he only focuses on himself.

PHILLIP: I mean, Scott, I hear what you're saying about the economy. And trust me, I mean, look, prices are high. That is 100% true. It has increased partly because of COVID, because of inflation.

However, if Donald Trump is running on, you know, making promises about bringing back American jobs, building plants, revitalizing the, you know, working class economy, and then didn't deliver on that, I mean, that seems like a problem in a key state like Wisconsin.

WALKER: Well, in a state where four years ago, all across America, we saw the lowest level of unemployment for Black Americans, for Hispanic Americans, for women, for veterans, those are real numbers. People -- all the spin in the world doesn't work here on CNN or anywhere else if people don't see it. They can see --

PHILLIP: Well, I mean, I just --

WALKER: -- for themselves the prices have gone up, and the reality is in Wisconsin, the economy was much, much -- I'm talking Wisconsin, the economy was much, much better four years ago.

PHILLIP: I just wanted to clarify that -- that --

WALKER: You can look at -- PHILLIP: -- the unemployment -- the unemployment rate for Black Americans, for example, in -- in the country was lower under President Biden than under Donald Trump.

WALKER: Yeah.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIP: Let me -- let me just let -- Ben, give me one second because I want to let -- I want to let the governor finish his thought and then I'll let you jump in.

WIKLER: All right.

WALKER: Well, I'm just saying people don't need me to tell them. They can see it when they go to QuikTrip to fill up their gas tank. They can see it when they go to the grocery store and it costs them two to three times what it cost them just a few years ago. They can see it when they go to get a mortgage payment like my kids are as first- time homebuyers. They can see what has happened.

And like I said, we even got fact-checked on that comment I made right here on CNN about layoffs here in the state of Wisconsin going up more than 100% during the first couple of months of this year. Anybody who's telling you the economy is better because the stock market might be ticking up a little bit just isn't talking to people here in Wisconsin and real-life Americans across the country.

PHILLIP: Go ahead, Ben.

WIKLER: I appreciate -- I appreciate your -- your view, governor. Everyone is infuriated by high grocery prices, by high gas prices. The question is, what are you going to do about it? President Trump is running on a plan to jack up prices. He -- you can read the Project 2025. He wants to give away the store to special interests. He met with oil company executives and told them that if they gave him a billion dollars for his campaign, he'd give them whatever they wanted.

And the opposite is true with President Biden. I mean, President Biden, unlike President Trump, apparently loves Wisconsin, loves our -- our cities and small towns and rural areas, and he's actually working to deliver stuff for people here. And if he has another term, he's going to go toe to toe with special interests across the board to keep bringing costs down. And we can see that in his record in bipartisan legislation that he has passed through Congress and signed into law.

Trump's big bill was a tax cut for the ultra-wealthy and putting Supreme Court justices in who terminated Roe versus Wade and side against unions and workers at every step.

For President Biden, he walked on a picket line, he signed the infrastructure bill, he signed the law to negotiate for lower prices for prescription drugs and Medicare.

[23:30:01] Over and over, he has done what he said he was going to do. And what he is saying right now is that he's going to stop at nothing to bring costs down for working families and keep bringing those job numbers and those manufacturing jobs up.

PHILLIP: Ben, let me stick with you for just a second here because we have this new Fox poll that's out. That's actually a very good poll for Joe Biden. It shows him a little bit ahead of Donald Trump. One of the main reasons is because of a rebounding in voter sentiment about the economy.

And yet you see the Biden administration also kind of doubling down on Trump's convictions on this. You know -- and I don't want to downplay the democracy argument, but they're -- they're running ads about Trump being in it for himself, highlighting his 34 convictions. Is that the right emphasis at this point in time or should they be focusing on some of the economic points that you are making here on the show?

WIKLER: Well, elections are about choices. It's about a contrast. And on the one hand, we see Trump, you know, committed dozens of crimes in order to prevent voters from finding out the truth when he was running in 2016. He tried to throw out 100,000 Milwaukee votes and many others to try to overturn the election in 2020 in a conspiracy -- a criminal conspiracy. And now he wants to get into the White House to go after the people who he thinks wronged him. It's a -- it's a revenge campaign.

And on the other hand, President Biden, who is delivering and talking about his economic record and his continued work to bring costs down and bring that economic boom into -- in ways that resonate for everyone.

I think the more people find out about Trump, the better it is for Biden. The more people find out about what Biden has done and plans to do, the better it is for Biden. And making that choice come into focus is the key.

The big challenge, if you dig into these polls, it's people who were able to tune out of politics because President Biden is not someone who makes you wake up in the middle of the night sweating in fear about what he might have done to, I don't know, side with North Korea and allow them to get nuclear weapons. President Biden is actually a steady hand on the tiller.

So, a lot of people have stopped paying as much attention to the news, and the people paying the least attention to news are the people who aren't sure how they're going to vote. Those who are paying attention are siding with Biden.

And so, I really think both to focus on Biden and on Trump, all of those things help President Biden win reelection and help ensure that we can restore the freedom to access an abortion safely and legally, that we can protect our democracy, and that we build an economy from the middle out instead of just giveaways to the ultra-wealthy.

PHILLIP: Governor, your response to that? I mean, should voters pay attention? Shouldn't they care about the 34 convictions and Trump's character?

WALKER: What Joe Biden does to keep people up in the middle of the night is worry about how they're going to pay the bills. That's what people talk to me about, whether it was in Milwaukee earlier today, an area that leans Democrat, we're seeing an area that's tossed over here in Waukesha County, which leans a little bit more Republican. I don't care where you're on the political spectrum. The people I talk to across Wisconsin and states all across the country are worried about the economy.

Heck, we just did a poll with Young America's Foundation. Number one issue of college students isn't what anybody would think. It's the economy. That's because people are hurting and Joe Biden's policies are adding to the pain. They want a leader who's going to step forward.

Yeah, maybe four years ago, there were some voters who didn't like all the chaos, didn't like some of the tweets out there. I think right now they take all that and some just to get back to a sense of economic stability where their families weren't so worried about making ends meet. And that's what they're going to get if Donald Trump is president for the next four years.

PHILLIP: Governor, I mean, you really think the voters don't care about the -- about the chaos of the of the Trump years? Actually, one of the interesting things in that Fox poll is --

WALKER: I do --

PHILLIP: -- more than half of them say they care about stability in the country.

WALKER: Yeah, I think -- I think many of them toned wise. That's why you saw a slight shift. You know, this is one of the closest states in America. Less than 25,000 votes in 2016 and about the same amount in 2020 were the difference.

But I think there's a lot of those people that have buyer's remorse because they thought they were getting some sort of stability, they thought they had a unifier. Instead, with Joe Biden, they have one of the most partisan, divisive presidents in the history of the country and someone who is either checked out or doesn't care about how people make ends meet here in Wisconsin and across the country.

That's what's going to bring them to the polls more than any other issue. And if it's a referendum and high prices in the economy, Joe Biden will lose.

PHILLIP: Ben?

WIKLER: I walked today in the Juneteenth celebration here in Milwaukee. It's a -- it's a great city, a great lake, and it's a -- it's a celebration of freedom. And what we've seen over and over in 2022, in 2023, in the Supreme Court race in Wisconsin, and we're seeing it in special elections now, is that -- we see it throughout our history, very deeply, is that people will fight for their freedom. People will fight for their freedom to make their own decisions about their own bodies. They'll fight to be able to cast a ballot and have that vote -- that vote count. They also care about the economy. They want someone who's on their side.

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That's what they have with President Biden, and they've never had with Donald Trump. He's -- he's a conman when it comes to the economy. All talk and no action, unless you're a wealthy donor, a billionaire like he says that he is. So that really is the choice here.

And I think it's a mistake to underestimate how much Americans care about freedom, how much they love their country and our highest ideals, ideals that we've never achieved but we're still fighting for, the idea that everyone should count and everyone should have dignity and equal worth.

I think those things are all on the ballot this November. And I think those things are why, even in a super tightly divided state like Wisconsin, President Biden and Kamala Harris and Democrats up and down the ballot are going to win.

PHILLIP: Governor, before we go, I should ask you, we're quickly approaching the conventions where Donald Trump says that he's likely to announce his V.P. pick. Who do you think should be his pick at the end of the day?

WALKER: I think a proven problem solver would be a great addition for someone who can show he can -- he got things done four years ago, he's going to get things done again. So, any number of governors, Doug Burgum, Ron DeSantis, Kim Reynolds, done a fabulous job in Iowa. A couple of different senators come to mind. Marco Rubio. You look at Tim Scott. There's a number of great --

PHILLIP: That's a -- that's a lot of names there, governor. Anyone at the top of the list?

(LAUGHTER)

WALKER: Oh, I mean, I think, you know, as we saw eight years ago, anybody, it may be somebody none of us are talking about right now, but I think someone who's a proven problem solver would be a nice complement because it would show not just for the next four years, but for -- for both parties.

The person we elect is only going to be in for four years. And so, who his or her running mate or his running mate is, it may be a he or she, that's on the ticket, who that person is may very well be the next president four years later. And I think people want to see someone with Donald Trump who's able to carry the torch and get things done to work out, to look out, I should say, for the hardworking people in America.

I think Ben and I both do care about America. I think we love this country. We just have two very different views. Ben and President Biden put their faith in the government. Me and Donald Trump and others put our faith in the individual, the family, and God. And that's where you really, truly get freedom from.

PHILLIP: Scott Walker, Ben Wikler, thank you both very much for a lively but cordial discussion between two Wisconsinites. I appreciate it.

WALKER: Thanks, Abby.

WIKLER: Thanks so much.

PHILLIP: And up next, what will a renewed alliance between Russian President Vladimir Putin and North Korean Leader Kim Jong-un mean for the rest of the world? I'll speak with an expert about that.

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[23:41:59]

PHILLIP: Tonight, a chilling alliance, a huge show of flattery with thousands of people lining the streets in North Korea today. The spectacle designed to get the world's attention as Kim Jong-un hosted Russia's president, Vladimir Putin, for the first time in 24 years. The two leaders holding meetings and reaching an agreement that the U.S. is paying very, very close attention to.

Joining me now is Vivian Salama. She is with "The Wall Street Journal." Vivian, so translate for us what this means. Putin has promised to provide mutual assistance in the event of aggression, mutual assistance to North Korea. What does that mean for the rest of the world?

VIVIAN SALAMA, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: Well, I'll tell you, who's really alarmed right now is South Korea because there is a perpetual state of tension with South Korea, of course, a U.S. ally, an ally to Europe and to other Asian nations as well. And so, they're watching this saying, wait a minute, you know, we are constantly in a state of war. I mean, remember that an armistice was signed between North and South Korea. It never officially ended the war, just ended the hostilities for the time being.

And so, you know, that is a major concern, but also for the U.S. more broadly, just seeing these two get closer together. We've seen a flirtation in recent years. But as these two countries have grown increasingly isolated, they have grown closer together.

PHILLIP: And it has gotten more concrete. I mean, Putin is saying, Russia is saying that they are promising to fill in North Korea's nuclear gaps. I mean, that seems to be like it ought to be some kind of red line for the United States and for South Korea.

SALAMA: It's also hypocritical because six, seven years ago, Putin explicitly said that he did not approve of North Korea's nuclear program. Now --

PHILLIP: So, what has changed?

SALAMA: Well, what has changed is that Putin could use all the friends that he can get. And right now, North Korea has offered to provide ammunition. The U.S. has actually flagged this as a potential issue, that it would provide ammunition and other weapons that Russia needs in its own war with Ukraine. And so, this has been gradually something that we've seen them growing closer together. They need each other because they literally have no one else.

PHILLIP: So, do you think that this will have a meaningful impact on the war in Ukraine? I mean, part of this is -- Putin is going searching for friends. They need a lot of materials to carry out this war that has been incredibly costly to Russia in all kinds of different ways.

SALAMA: Well, one of the things that we've seen over recent years is that sanctions haven't really broken Russia in the way that the U.S. and its European allies would have liked to see because of the fact that it has managed to find other nations to essentially bankroll other certain industries, including its military.

The fact that it is still able to sustain its military aggression in Ukraine, despite the crippling, supposedly crippling sanctions on its military and other -- other sectors is because of these alliances. And the closer it gets to North Korea, the more alarming it's going to get.

PHILLIP: It is North Korea. It's also countries like Iran. A British security official labeled this new alliance between Putin and North Korea, the new axis of tyranny.

[23:45:01]

It's them, it's Iran, it's China. This is pretty scary. It might bring back some World War II, some Cold War memories for people.

SALAMA: Uh-hmm.

PHILLIP: Is that valid?

SALAMA: It's not even the ones that you just listed. Those are the main offenders, probably. But you could even go as far as to say the ones that are buying discounted Russian oil -- discounted Russian oil and gas. India, for example, has been doing that. India is a U.S. ally. There are certain countries that say that they're just not willing to completely shut out Russia because of the fact that Moscow has had a historic alliance with their countries. They see a benefit in still sustaining ties with Moscow. And so, they will not shut them out completely.

And so, that's where we are in 2024, two and a half years into this war in Ukraine. Russia still has friends, and that is what is alarming Washington. It hasn't been able to concretely make the case to everyone around the world that they need to just close the door on Putin. PHILLIP: Yeah. It almost seems like now, two years later, the world is actually perhaps more bifurcated than it has been in quite a long time. Vivian Salama, this is alarming stuff, but thank you for explaining it all to us.

SALAMA: Nice to see you, Abby.

PHILLIP: A Broadway play performed in a maximum-security prison by inmates. The playwright will join us to tell us why he thinks it can help the performers. That's next.

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[23:50:47]

PHILLIP: A maximum security prison might not be where you think you'd see a Broadway play, but Green Haven Correctional Facility in New York State is where the latest performance of "Thoughts of a Colored Man" was staged. The actors, they were all men serving time there. And the producer was the nonprofit Rehabilitation Through the Arts. It's a group that brings performing arts and humanities to eight prisons near New York City.

And joining me now is Broadway playwright, actor, and producer Keenan Scott II. His play was the one that was staged. And he's also producing a documentary about these interesting performances. Keenan, great to see you. Thanks for joining us.

KEENAN SCOTT II, BROADWAY PLAYWRIGHT, ACTOR, AND PRODUCER: Oh, thank you. It's a pleasure.

PHILLIP: These inmates, they performed your Broadway debut play. It's a story about the life of seven black men living in the same Brooklyn neighborhood. How did this all come about?

SCOTT: Well, now, after Broadway, my play has now gone on to be licensed. So, all rights are available for the play to be done at all levels of theater, whether that's professional, nonprofessional, amateur and high school. So, RTA reached out to me wanting to license the piece so they can do their own version of the production in Green Haven.

PHILLIP: And what was it like seeing these actors who are inmates? They're in a maximum-security prison. So, you know, these are tough people, presumptively, learning, rehearsing, performing a work that you wrote.

SCOTT: It was truly amazing, to be honest. Just like I told the guys when I was working with them, they didn't feel like inmates, and I didn't look at them like inmates. Their talent rivals any actor I've ever worked with. So, working with these gentlemen felt like any other rehearsal.

Unfortunately, of course, we were inside a max security prison. But working with these guys were truly life changing. It was really a transformative situation for myself. It truly was a great experience. And seeing these men bring my words to life, it really meant something special because these guys have a deeper connection with the work because a lot of these guys are from the same neighborhoods I'm from.

PHILLIP: Yeah. I want to read what you wrote on Instagram about this and the documentary that you're making about the staging of this play. You wrote, "Since the age of 14, I've had at least one or more friend of mine be incarcerated. The American prison system forces you to ask yourself, do we truly want rehabilitation or not?"

Can you tell us more about that? I mean, is this a vehicle for rehabilitation?

SCOTT: I think it is. If you look at the statistics for RTA, only 3% of the incarcerated individuals that partake in this program actually return to prison once they get out. That's almost 100%. So, there's no other telling sign than that. There truly is power in theater, in storytelling, in true programs that really help individuals to rehabilitate.

So, I think that's very important. I think, you know, this is a start. Of course, it's not the end all to be all, this is not the final answer, but I do think programs like this truly do have the power to change.

PHILLIP: And what did these inmates, as you were going through this process of making this documentary, what did they tell you about how this particular work connected with them?

SCOTT: It was different for them. We come from the same neighborhoods. I'm from the projects in Queens. So, these guys truly related to the experience that I wrote in this piece. We all have a shared experience, not only just being Black men, but also being New Yorkers. So, a lot of us have the same origin point because we come from the same community.

So, unlike other productions they might have done in the past, this piece really spoke to them because this piece truly is about the shared experience of Black men in America. So, this piece touched them in ways that other pieces that they've done before haven't.

PHILLIP: Can you give us a sense of what some of these inmates are in for? I mean, are some of them facing long prison sentences? I know you talked about this program showing that many people are rehabilitated, but the ones that were participating in this play, what are they facing?

SCOTT: Absolutely. It's very heart-wrenching. It was saddened to find out that a lot of them do have a lot of time. This is a max-security prison. So, a lot of them are facing 10 plus years.

[23:55:00]

The great thing is a few of them will be out soon, depending on, you know, different cases and such, but these men are facing a lot of time, unfortunately. PHILLIP: All right. Keenan Scott II, thank you very much for joining me. Appreciate it.

SCOTT: Thank you.

PHILLIP: And thank you for watching "NewsNight." CNN's coverage continues right after this.

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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Tonight on "360," new reporting on how the former president has been preparing for next week's CNN debate now that it is eight days away, and word of a new name he could be considering as a running mate.

Also, tonight, Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong-un have agreed to a new military partnership. How concerned should the West be in Ukraine?

[00:00:00]

Plus, Louisiana becomes the only state in America to mandate displaying the 10 commandments in every public classroom. What happens now?

Good evening.